Draft, exempt list, and free agency after draft is done

[Astros GM (Dave)]

I've only been in the league for a year, but it looks like we need to have a discussion on a few things, just hoping to get the discussion started. I tend to be more analytical then emotional, so sorry if this comes across "boring" to read!

Just for the foundation of my points here, from what I can find during my research.  1) the average draft prospect is given 4 years to show the MLB team that drafted them they are worth keeping, otherwise they are cut and 2) only 10% of draft picks ever make it to the MLB level.

If we want to make this more like the real MLB, as we have said in the past, I think we need some changes.  So, my thought is we should increase the exempt list to 20 players and increase the draft to 5 rounds.  Even if you draft well, in theory, the most you will have are 2 guys each year that make it to the majors.  And you will want to give your prospects their 4 years to prove themselves.  Increasing both the draft rounds and the exempt list will help rebuilding teams, and give teams fighting for the playoffs more prospects as trade bait.  

The free agency after the draft, I think we should wait until the week after the draft is done to do the free agents that weren't drafted.  Adding an additional 2 rounds will cut down on so many free agents being posted.  And instead of using the "time factor" to determine the winner if there is a tie for salary, why don't we award the player to the team that finished lower in the standings the previous year?  And put all the teams that didn't make the playoffs in the lottery pick, like they decided to do in MLB starting next year.

I didn't want to get into a ton of detailing here, I really just want to get discussions started so we can make changes before next season.  I look forward to some productive conversations.

Thanks,
Dave

[Nationals GM (Preston)]

There’s a convo about all this ongoing in the Discord, but I generally agree, other than going straight to 20 on the exempt list. That would only incentivize the posting blitz further. I’d be down to try up to 15 though. I also think we should cap the number of players teams can post for bidding per week to, say, 10.

[Rays GM (Donavan)]

I’m okay with the draft remaining as is, or expanding to 5 rounds from next season.

I get the frustration around doing all the research to find hidden gems and then having other teams sign them, once you’ve put them up for bidding. And I therefore understand listing 40 players in the hope no one finds your hidden gem, but I think the entire process is unnecessary.

Why do we need to list players to be bid on? Why isn’t every player available on Fantrax able to be bid on, without the need to list them prior to bidding?

This way the team that does the research and finds the hidden gem can make an offer, without highlighting that player to the rest of the league.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Cardinals GM (John C)]

Mar 15, 2022 14:39:51 GMT -8 Rays GM (Donavan) said:

....... Why do we need to list players to be bid on? Why isn’t every player available on Fantrax able to be bid on, without the need to list them prior to bidding?

This way the team that does the research and finds the hidden gem can make an offer, without highlighting that player to the rest of the league.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I appreciate the opinion, but I think this would be a very bad idea.  More often than not, the "hidden gems" that owners do their research on are also "hidden gems" for other owners too.  There are very dedicated team owners here who are constantly doing research and deciding whether to make a roster spot for Player X or whether to allow him to remain in the FA list and try for him later.  If Player X comes up for bid, then other owners who have the player on the radar have a decision to make:  "Do I create a roster spot for this guy right now or do I let him go?"

There are not very many players who are so under the radar that no other team knows about him.  If the players are undrafted free agents or international players, multiple teams will be looking at the player and deciding whether to make an offer.  

If anything, I'd be more in favor of having owners just list players they want to bid on and drop the subterfuge.  Or else, limit how many free agents can be put up each week and actually have a bidding auction.  I'm not in favor of either of these things, but they would both be preferable to players just being plucked out of free agency.  

If we do decide to go with Donovan's idea, then I think we would need to introduce waivers of some kind.  IE, if a team cuts Michael Conforto and takes the cap hit, then whomever sees that he has been cut first could just sign him for $0.6M for 7 years.  Is that a good plan?

Even if you wanted to only do it with players who have never appeared in the Majors, do we want someone to be able to just sign a post-hype prospect who was just cut only because that owner "saw him first"?  

[Cubs GM (Beau)]

I'm in a league that has an open bidding calculator. Have to beat the previous bid by 5% and after no more bids over 24 hours, you have a winner. If folks are interested in that, I can talk to it's creator and see if he'll help reverse engineer one for this league.

[Cubs GM (Beau)]

But I guess that still doesn't work for prospects.

[Former Angels GM (Mike C.)]

Mar 15, 2022 14:39:51 GMT -8 Rays GM (Donavan) said:

I’m okay with the draft remaining as is, or expanding to 5 rounds from next season.

I get the frustration around doing all the research to find hidden gems and then having other teams sign them, once you’ve put them up for bidding. And I therefore understand listing 40 players in the hope no one finds your hidden gem, but I think the entire process is unnecessary.

Why do we need to list players to be bid on? Why isn’t every player available on Fantrax able to be bid on, without the need to list them prior to bidding?

This way the team that does the research and finds the hidden gem can make an offer, without highlighting that player to the rest of the league.

Just my 2 cents worth.

love this idea and its been successful in the past.  Would save a lot of time for everyone including the person handling FA.  Real MLB has scouts that do this exact thing, they go to places others don't and sign guys that are off the radar for other teams. They don't announce the players to all the other scouts.  Its exactly like real MLB.

[Cardinals GM (John C)]

Mar 18, 2022 11:00:59 GMT -8 Former Angels GM (Mike C.) said:

Mar 15, 2022 14:39:51 GMT -8 Rays GM (Donavan) said:

I’m okay with the draft remaining as is, or expanding to 5 rounds from next season.

I get the frustration around doing all the research to find hidden gems and then having other teams sign them, once you’ve put them up for bidding. And I therefore understand listing 40 players in the hope no one finds your hidden gem, but I think the entire process is unnecessary.

Why do we need to list players to be bid on? Why isn’t every player available on Fantrax able to be bid on, without the need to list them prior to bidding?

This way the team that does the research and finds the hidden gem can make an offer, without highlighting that player to the rest of the league.

Just my 2 cents worth.

love this idea and its been successful in the past.  Would save a lot of time for everyone including the person handling FA.  Real MLB has scouts that do this exact thing, they go to places others don't and sign guys that are off the radar for other teams. They don't announce the players to all the other scouts.  Its exactly like real MLB.

Actually, it seems to me that it is the opposite of MLB.

All teams will know what players are out there.  They are heavily scouted by all teams and MLB for the draft, they are heavily scouted and listed as available for international signing (and apparently now for an international draft), and players who are free agents all have agents who do not just take the first contract a team GM offers -- they shop their players around.  

[Rockies GM (Dan)]

Cardinals GM (John C)

I don't think anyone would be able to sign those types of players for 0.6m/7 years unless a team cuts a player at the eleventh hour on a Friday. I don't think anyone is advocating for true open FA, where the first team to put in a bid automatically wins, just a silent bidding system that gets processed Saturday morning at 12:00am PDT.

[Cardinals GM (John C)]

Mar 18, 2022 15:31:13 GMT -8 Rockies GM (Dan) said:

Cardinals GM (John C)

I don't think anyone would be able to sign those types of players for 0.6m/7 years unless a team cuts a player at the eleventh hour on a Friday. I don't think anyone is advocating for true open FA, where the first team to put in a bid automatically wins, just a silent bidding system that gets processed Saturday morning at 12:00am PDT.

You mean, like players from the 2021 draft who would be free agents in our league now?

They all have agents, and the reason they are FA in this league is because we don't have multiple minor league teams to assign them to.

I think that is exactly who everyone is talking about.  International free agents are a little different in MLB since they are often identified early by teams and have a "handshake" agreement to sign the player once he turns 16.  That all changes in 2024, when all teams will be able to scout all players and participate in a draft of international players.

What am I missing?

[Rockies GM (Dan)]

Mar 18, 2022 16:24:07 GMT -8 Cardinals GM (John C) said:

Mar 18, 2022 15:31:13 GMT -8 Rockies GM (Dan) said:

Cardinals GM (John C)

I don't think anyone would be able to sign those types of players for 0.6m/7 years unless a team cuts a player at the eleventh hour on a Friday. I don't think anyone is advocating for true open FA, where the first team to put in a bid automatically wins, just a silent bidding system that gets processed Saturday morning at 12:00am PDT.

You mean, like players from the 2021 draft who would be free agents in our league now?

They all have agents, and the reason they are FA in this league is because we don't have multiple minor league teams to assign them to.

I think that is exactly who everyone is talking about.  International free agents are a little different in MLB since they are often identified early by teams and have a "handshake" agreement to sign the player once he turns 16.  That all changes in 2024, when all teams will be able to scout all players and participate in a draft of international players.

What am I missing?

I'm literally responding to this point you made:

"If we do decide to go with Donovan's idea, then I think we would need to introduce waivers of some kind. IE, if a team cuts Michael Conforto and takes the cap hit, then whomever sees that he has been cut first could just sign him for $0.6M for 7 years. Is that a good plan?"

What does that have to do with UDFAs?

[Cardinals GM (John C)]

I addressed the full spectrum of free agents in my posts above, not just UDFAs. I did not see anything in this thread that limited the discussion to UDFA's only. I guess I missed it?

Quoting Donovan above: "Why isn’t every player available on Fantrax able to be bid on, without the need to list them prior to bidding?"

[Rockies GM (Dan)]

You made an argument, I responded to one single point in that argument.

I can do that without completely invalidating the rest of your argument.

[Rays GM (Donavan)]

I think we need a poll on free agency options.

The result of which wouldn’t be implemented until 2023 season.

[Cardinals GM (John C)]

Mar 18, 2022 16:54:48 GMT -8 Rockies GM (Dan) said:

You made an argument, I responded to one single point in that argument.

I can do that without completely invalidating the rest of your argument.

That's fine.  I was addressing the expansion of the argument that started upthread to include all FAs in the discussion.  

I can do that without invalidating the rest of the thread.

[Former Angels GM (Mike C.)]

Mar 18, 2022 11:15:52 GMT -8 Cardinals GM (John C) said:

Mar 18, 2022 11:00:59 GMT -8 Former Angels GM (Mike C.) said:

love this idea and its been successful in the past.  Would save a lot of time for everyone including the person handling FA.  Real MLB has scouts that do this exact thing, they go to places others don't and sign guys that are off the radar for other teams. They don't announce the players to all the other scouts.  Its exactly like real MLB.

Actually, it seems to me that it is the opposite of MLB.

All teams will know what players are out there.  They are heavily scouted by all teams and MLB for the draft, they are heavily scouted and listed as available for international signing (and apparently now for an international draft), and players who are free agents all have agents who do not just take the first contract a team GM offers -- they shop their players around.  

yes, on the guys everyone knows about.  Scouts from all teams don't show up to all HS.  The creation of the "Showcases" have changed that a bit but not all teams send scouts to JuCos, HS, etc on the not so obvious talent.

[Former Angels GM (Mike C.)]

nobody is guaranteed to win a FA because they bid $1m on a guy they threw out, plenty of FA have been won by the non throwing out there guy with bids over $1m, happens all the time. FA gives everyone a shot at guys multiple teams like. Its the drafting of more players that is the only automatic way to get the guys you want and increasing rosters allows you to hold on to guys you want longer.

If you want to really make it like MLB, then do it, everyone has a full roster active, full AAA, full AA, full A, full Rookie, full DSL and have a draft and FA biding for International players, exactly like MLB does it. There are leagues like that. Instead of painfully changing rules/rosters a little at a time every season. You are trying to build something to mimic something that is already built, just change it all already and stop all the discussions of how to get there one small step at a time every off season like it hasn't been done before. Just copy MLB. But that means no trade committee too, imagine the RL Yankees making deals and the owners of the RL Red Sox, RL Blue Jays, RL Dodgers, RL Cardinals vetoing it. So everyone wants to be able to control how to get the prospects they want but not be able to control to trade who they want? You can make a league whatever you want but one that stays the same lets you focus on finding players that work in that league format.

Strange how the roster issue comes up right after the draft every season, yes you don't get to get everyone you want. yes, your trying to change things so you can. Having an entire MLB and MiLB system per team, puts an end to it, the rosters can't include HS kids, well, you could but crap.

[Nationals GM (Preston)]

It came up before the draft.

There’s also nothing wrong with having a discussion to figure out ways the league can be improved.

I think we have had several proposals above, with varying degrees of how they would overhaul free agency. I’d prefer fewer changes, see how they do, then consider additional changes. My favorite ideas are minor - expand the draft to 5 rounds and increase exempt rosters by up to 5.

I’m not supportive of other changes to free agency, including removing the posting system.

We may be at a point where the CO should collect all ideas out there and consider which are appropriate for a vote. The chat is getting a little nippy unintentionally.

[Diamondbacks GM (Ethan)]

I am completely and thoroughly confused with what is being proposed. Can we just end this and put the proposals in writing? It’s too philosophical in the comments and I, for one, do not welcome higher level thinking. See ball, hit ball.